You cannot build a nation without laws —LIYEL IMOKE
In this chat, GOV. LIYEL IMOKE speaks on Law, Leadership and the Challenges of Nationhood.
Q: THE ANNUAL GENERAL CONFERENCE OF THE NBA WHICH TOOK PLACE HERE IN CROSSRIVER STATE WITH YOU AS HOST GOVERNOR, HAS JUST COME TO AN END, WHAT ARE YOU VIEWS ABOUT THE DELIBERATIONS WHICH DO YOU THINK OUR LAWS ARE PROACTIVE OR RETROACTIVE?
A: A lot has been said in the course of the week about our laws, leadership and the challenges of nationhood. Indeed, you cannot build a nation without laws. When we talk about the Rule of Law, it is based on the presumption that there is first, a law in place and then rules that stipulate why and how we must obey the law. It further states that no one is above this law. Therefore, it is pertinent that we first put the laws in place.
Laws are made in various forms. They may be in the form of legislations. They may be practices, and they may also be cultural. What is however significant, is the fact that they must exist.
Q:MANY ARGUE THAT A NUMBER OF OUR LAWS HAVE BECOME OBSOLETE. WHAT DO THINK?
A: We do not create laws for the time; neither do we update our laws for the time. These would not be good laws. What I think we see now, is an evolution of legislations and legislative processes that we have never seen or have not paid much attention to. If you take a look at the quantum of legislations that have evolved over the last 14 years of our democracy, you would see the significance of this. For us in Cross River State, we have several legislations that have helped us build lasting structures and developed us as a people.
Q: WHAT SHAPE AND FORM DO YOU THINK THE AMENDMENT OF LAWS IN NIGERIA SHOULD TAKE?
A: The first question I ask to the amendment of our laws is this: What benefits accrue to the people and to the economy from these amendments? And if I cannot see those benefits, then I’ll put it on a secondary list of amendments. The key word in amendments should be prioritising. I do not think we are doing enough of that presently.
I believe that as our democracy evolves, it is important that we build on our constitutional amendments; that we strengthen our legislations, whilst also strengthening and building the capacity to enforce. All the stakeholders, the civil societies, the bar, the bench and of course the government have significant roles to play.
Q: WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE BAR AND BENCH IN ALL OF THIS?
A: Having made the laws, it is therefore, the responsibility of those at the bar to ensure compliance with these laws. While it is also the responsibility of those at the bench to ensure, that those laws are interpreted and enforced. These are some of the responsibilities we need to develop alongside our evolving democracy.
There are a number of issues that arise, when we talk about the federation and federating units.
For instance, we have what we call the State High Courts, which are truly not state high courts. They are located in the states, but the judges are appointed by the National Judicial Council (NJC). I as a Governor cannot even appoint a judge or a Chief Judge. I can make a recommendations, but the NJC can reject that recommendation. The depth of our understanding of our constitution is something we must all begin to appreciate.
Furthermore, the technical competencies for governance are domiciled in the ministries. We are either creating new bureaucracies or inefficiencies. Looking at all of this, we must begin to ask ourselves, “are we afraid of becoming a true federation,” because that is what it seems.
Q: WHAT IS THE STATE OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE COURTS HERE?
A:As I mentioned earlier, we merely provide some support for the infrastructure of the courts. They award their own contracts out (which I don’t mind), but we also need them to work with the competent departments in government that are responsible for them.
With regards to the infrastructure of the courts, cross rivers state was the model for the application of the new court systems where you now have verbatim reporting and where the judges also record their court proceedings.
Despite the infrastructural development that has taken place, the judiciary has nonetheless, remained the most conservative and slow to accept these changes. But that I think it is important that this arm of government continues to be strengthened.
Q: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF ON-GOING PROJECTS IN THE NEW DEVELOPMENT AREA OF STATE, LIKE THE MONORAIL, THE CONVENTION CENTRE, THE GOLF COURSE AND A FEW OTHERS, DO YOU HOPE TAKE THESE PROJECTS TO FULL COMPLETION?
A: In Cross River State, we do a lot of planning and we have good project management strategies. What we do, is put our funding in place before the commencement of each project and everything else fits into our plan.
Non-completion of projects is not a concern for us at all. We have discussed with our banks and agreed on the funding structure for key projects like the Convention centre; the golf course, and the entire new development area. Funding for these key projects are very much in place.
Even if we have a challenge completing every single project to a hundred percent, it will not be with our road projects, our electrification projects, our social projects, or any of our key projects. We should be able to achieve fully on all of these.
As a matter of policy, we are not taking on new projects at the terminal stage of this administration. This government is not project-driven, so you find that at this stage of our administration, there is going to be very few (if any) contract awards in 2013-2014 and certainly none in 2015.
Q: YOU ARE ONE OF THE FEW GOVS WHO HAS HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF BEING AT THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BEFORE BEING ELECTED GOVERNOR. WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE AT PUBLIC SERVICE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IS THE GREATEST CHALLENGE OF GOVERNANCE IN NIGERIA?
A: Like you said, I’m grateful to God for the privilege to have been in public service for a very long time. I have come to understand that the biggest challenge in governance, are our processes – be it in civil service or in our political offices.
Projects or assignments that should ordinarily take 90days or less, would be done in 120 days or more, in the guise of ‘due process’. They accuse the system saying….”because you introduced due process, then achieving this assignment would take longer,” where as this should not be so. If we understood due process, we will not use it as an excuse for delays.
Q: IS THIS TRULY THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGE IN GOVERNANCE, AND WHY DO YOU THINK SO?
A: Yes it is! The second greatest challenge however, is the limitation of resources. The first challenge a new government faces, is being able to define your programmes; get the buy-in of the public, and implement programmes that are beneficial to the majority of the public.
I always tell my people that government should serve those who need government the most, as against serving those who make the most noise. This is a very big challenge in a developing economy. As a government, we really have a duty and a responsibility to understand and appreciate that a state no matter how beautiful it is, is only as good as the poorest person in the state.
Therefore, if we do not continuously pay attention to social reforms and social welfare, then of course, we are going to continuously glorify ourselves in our own infrastructure and nice environment, without necessarily having an impact on our people. We will continue to build nice school ‘buildings’, while education remains a disaster in Nigeria and thereafter, we take the glory for ‘the lovely school buildings’.
I do not think there is any government that built schools and was not well-celebrated. I’m not saying this is not good, but for me this is not what government should be about. And even getting the public to understand this, is a bigger challenge.
If we cannot do something to meet the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) by 2015, then as a nation, I think we should query ourselves; particularly when smaller African countries have done it right. These are basic human development indicators, and this is what government should be about. This is why it is also very important that the public we serve understands this, even as we try to implement our initiatives.
After all said and done, the most critical of these factors is THE LAW. To do what needs to be done, and to make a great impact on the lowest class of citizens (some of whom may never have access to a commissioner or a
“AS THE INSECURITY AROUND THE COUNTRY PERSISTS; THE LATEST BEING THE KIDNAP OF HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, MIKE OZEKHOME, AND ANGLICAN ARCH BISHOP, IGNATIUS KATTEY, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT STATE POLICE. DO YOU SUPPORT THIS CALL AND WHAT IT REPRESENTS FOR THE NATION?”
A: Of course! Why shouldn’t I? Why would anyone want to contest it?
I will not be Governor when (and if) the legislation for State police is eventually passed, but I believe it to be one of the fundamental issues we must address as a nation if we truly want to be a federation. This is one of the reasons I asked earlier if we are afraid of becoming a federation.
I read in the newspapers that the reason you should not have State Police is that politicians would abuse it. Can we as a country and as a people, honestly put that argument forward as a reason for not having good security?
Let us even assume that there are bad politicians that manipulate the police, is that the reason we are unable to tackle crime in our society. Is this the reason for insecurity around the country?
Yes, a politician may abuse the police; does that however mean that the people in that community, state, or location should be without the police or the security they provide?
This argument I must say, holds no water; which brings me back to the issue of awareness and getting the people to understand the dynamics of governance and true federalism.